Translated by CHEN (MITI, MSc in translation)
Important remarks:
This Letter Report and Visit Record dated
03/03/2008 to 11/11/2008.
Several sections of the report have been chosen to illustrate the unfairness of the Chinese legal system as it is dictated by the will of the leaders instead of the law. From these sections, it is apparent that our staff members have been deprived of their rights of information as stipulated in the Information Law of the People’s Republic of China, the Land Resources Law of the People’s Republic of China, and others. The diary shows the threats our members of staff were subjected to. Had I not been aboard, they might have been arrested or taken to mental institutions. Under an unfair legal system where the police--petitioners lodge appeals can be sent to mental institutions for inhuman treatment, the public can easily be subjected to cruel treatment and ill fates…
During the four years, a great number of officials lied to us. The year 2000 report shows that the coal mines to the east, west and south of Mifeng company were exhausted. The only reserve left was underneath the company and to the north of the company. Any further production must come from extracting the coal underneath the company….The coal extraction caused big areas of subsidence and cracks in the production area of the company and many sink holes occurred in the residential area-- these are undisputed facts but the victims are being arrested and circulated as wanted......
核心提示:这个信访记录是从2008 年3 月3 日开始到2008 年11 月11 号,现摘录几段说明中国法律系统是非常不公平,是长官意志,而不是按法律 办事. 我们工人根据<中华人民共和国信息法>,<中华人民共和国土地法>, 等所有法律的知情权均被剥夺.从日记中可以看出工人所受的威胁,如果不 是我在国外,他们就可能被逮捕或送到精神病院.一个可以把"警察--上诉者"送 到精神病院受到非人待遇的不公平的司法系统, 普通老百姓更容易受到非 人待遇,难逃厄运……
四年之间,多少官员当着我们的面说谎言,2000 年的鉴定报告,就已经显示, 密丰公司周边东面,西面和南面的煤已经采挖完毕,惟有密丰公司下面和密 丰公司以北有丰厚的煤田,周边煤矿只要生产,一定是挖密丰下面的煤…… 煤矿采煤斑陷了公司厂房,大面积裂缝,家属区出现无底黑洞, 这是无可争辩 的受害者,却遭到逮捕和通缉……
Record of Letter Report and Visit for the Letter Report and Visit Authority
Tues., 06/05/2008
We went to the Letter Report and Visit Bureau of Zhengzhou for Section Chief SUN. When we got there, we called SUN (Mr. SUN Xueliang, the director of Supervision & Investigation Department of Zhengzhou Report & Visit Bureau, Henan province, China). When we got through, [we] said: “We saw Section Chief ZHOU (Mrs. ZHOU, Director of Supervision & Investigation Department of Henan province Report & Visit Bureau, China) yesterday. ZHOU said he/she had called you, and we can come to you for any consultation.
SUN said: “What are you saying! You need to trust the government, your city government. Even the city government of Zhengzhou is involved in this matter. It has been clearly said that if [you think] the government
can’t resolve it, including Xinmi and Zhengzhou city governments, we can’t agree to such thoughts. Think about it, your reporting this matter resulted in a special case team sent from Zhengzhou city government, another team sent from the Land Resources Bureau of Zhengzhou city and a third team sent from Letter Report and Visit Bureau of Zhengzhou city. This matter has been looked into again and again. Investigations have been carried out again and again. We have tried to resolve this for you again and again. You can see how much attention and effort has been put into this. If you are still saying the outcome of the leaders’ investigation does not have a legal basis, then I think you yourselves need to think whether there is something
wrong with your personal thinking.”
YANG [Mrs.YANG Liping, deputy General Manager of Zhengzhou Mifeng Paper-Making Co.Ltd(MFP)]. said: “No, no, we are not…The thing is, what is happening, we don’t even know. “
SUN said: “We have been down there to see it. The matter is very clear. [On] some issues we are of the same mind. What is the big problem? You are young and I wonder if you have overreacted. I am being honest
with you. I will talk about the issues with you.
Don’t overreact. If you overreact, it is not good for anybody in the future. The Red Letter documents have been issued. Because of this, the Zhengzhou city government has reports, including the problems you are concerned about.
You must trust the government.”
YANG said: “[We] trust the government, but we don’t even know what has been the outcome. How is it that
we are not informed of the conclusion, right?”
SUN said: “The problems you are reporting have been dealt with appropriately by governments at different levels.”
YANG said: “We are the people with the information.”
SUN interrupted her:"I think it is up to how you see this. Don’t overreact.” YANG said: “What how we see this? What overreaction? We just want to know, as you said the matter has been dealt with, why haven’t we been informed of the conclusion?”
SUN said: “You have been informed of this. Xinmi city government has already informed you and asked for your feedback. The hearing has taken place.
Zhengzhou city and the mayor (ZHAO Jiancai) have all signed off on decisions on this. Our Zhengzhou Letter Report and Visit Bureau has investigated the matter, The Land Resources Bureau of Zhengzhou has investigated the matter, including your local Xinmi city government has also investigated the matter. The specialists have discussed and approved it. This problem has been dealt with tho roughly.”
YANG said: “Thoroughly, what’s the conclusion? We are not saying it has not been dealt with. We are grateful for what the government has done.
SUN: “ [It’s] been thoroughly dealt with. Government at all levels have thoroughly dealt with this. You should go home and think about this. Think it through. [Ask yourself] whether this is a personal view problem and maybe not a government problem.”
YANG
SUN said: “Hasn’t there been a hearing hosted by Xinmi city government? Haven’t you been informed? It was very clear and detailed! Don’t overreact on some issues. If your response is overreacting, it will bring you no good.”
YANG: “No, what overreacting? Section Chief SUN.”
SUN said: “You are a citizen of China. We are also citizens of China. For the issue you report, the village, the
county, the city and the province will have certain says. If you still continue with your reporting here and there,
if you are still not doing some introspection, we will make a recommendation on this matter soon. Soon we will report to the city government. We will write a report on this.
This is not just your personal business, it is a matter for Zhengzhou city and Henan Province. Do you know? The issue you report has been looked into at three different levels and truly and honestly investigated. We have signed off on this. The Party General Secretary of your Xinmi city (Mr. LIU Huanchen, current director of administration office of People's Cogress of Zhengzhou City) as well as the Mayor of Zhengzhou (Mr. ZHAO Jiancai) have given attention to this matter and have issued documents on this. We have reported this issue to the provincial government as well as reported to the Provincial General Party Secretary (Mr. XU Guangchun) and even Beijing (PM. WEN Jiabao). If you are too….”
YANG said: “You have prejudice against me.”
SUN said: “No, I don’t have any prejudice. It is all in your head.”
YANG said: “I came to you because Section Chief ZHOU asked me to.”
SUN said: “Yes, I know.”
YANG said: “We are here to report this issue. You know the outcome but we don’t. Hasn’t the government…”
SUN interrupted by saying: “Feedback has been given and you should have been informed.”
YANG said:“Yesterday when we saw ZHOU, we did say our local State Resources Company did come to me. But the outcome reported from Xinmi city to you, what is included in the report, there must be a copy here. You can read it.” He said it was different.
SUN said: “It was at Section Chief WEI’s office.(WEI, deputy chief of Report & Visist Bureau Of Zhengzhou city, Henan Province, China). The materials were handed in [there]. The issues you report have been fully investigated. If you don’t think it has been appropriated dealt with, that is your problem.”
YANG said: “We are not saying it has not been dealt with appropriately. We just want to know, as you think it has been appropriately dealt with, what was the conclusion?”
SUN said: “There has been
a conclusion on the matter you report.
1. There is no [negative] impact on your company, from the coal mines. Other [aspects] have nothing to do with you. Zhengzhou city [authority] has come to a conclusion. If anything should happen in the future, if it relates to production, the government will bear the responsibility. (Editor Comment: In April 2009, The MFP workshop of main production line have been appeared subsidence, then the government arrested the Management team of the MFP See: http://96mfpbloodshedincident.blogspot.com/2010/05/usurp-power-intrigued-for-seizing-coal.html http://96mfpbloodshedincident.blogspot.com/2010/05/follow-up-report-on-96-incident-of.html). You just set your mind at ease. But you need to leave your personal view aside. In the future, [if] what you are doing is viewed as an overreaction and unwise move, you will bear the responsibility for it.
The issue you reported, we have honestly reported to the provincial government in the name of our government. The issues you reported have been appropriately dealt with, and I will tell you so either face to face or on the phone. This is my principle.”
SUN then went on and on about the same thing without telling us the outcome. He insisted that the problem had been resolved appropriately. Later,
YANG said: “We’d like to look into the safety production license.”
SUN said: “It is not your responsibility. Just mind your own business. This is not what you need to know. Just mind your own business. The issue you mention, can be verified by the Coal Bureau or the Land Resources Bureau, and thoroughly. I have seen it done. You just set your mind at ease. All is accountable.” YANG said: “Will these documents be available to the public?”
SUN said: “Public or not, has nothing to do with you. You are not the coal mine. You are Mifeng Papers. You are claiming somebody else has impact on you. In the end, it is proved there is no such impact. Right? You are now looking everywhere, for a thousand reasons.”
YANG said: “We are only looking for the right reasons.”
SUN said: “You need to have introspection into your behaviour. On your matter, we will report to the government on your matter. We will soon host the Olympics. We need to make recommendations to the government regarding our local instability factors. Anything you are not clear about, I can answer you directly.
No problem with this.”
YANG: “You have not answered directly any of my questions.”
SUN kept on repeatedly saying: government at all levels 1 have dealt with this matter appropriately. I have answered directly all your questions. On what you reported as a document issue, the mine(s) have all necessary paperwork.
YANG asked:“How about the land license?”
SUN said: “
Land license, whatever is needed is there.This has nothing to do with you.”
YANG asked: “What do we have the law for?”
SUN: “You go home and think about it! If you still have questions, you can call or consult. You can always ask.”
YANG said: “Ask you for what? Section Chief ZHOU asked us to come to you. You don’t even want to see us. You don’t directly answer all our questions either.”
SUN said: “Chief WEI has already answered your questions. I have answered your questions.”
YANG said: “What answers? The issue to do with Gairong ZHAI
(the MFP's staff, one of more than 300 petitioners signed report),
[you] may have trouble finding one person, but [can you possibly] have trouble finding all of the others?”
SUN said: “I tell you, I have many things to do. I can’t possibly review your issue again. It has been thoroughly dealt with. The outcomes you ask for, whatever can be given to you has been given.” He kept
repeating the matter has been appropriately dealt with. [He] asked [us] to leave and think it over ourselves. He said he was wanted by some other leader(s). He asked us to call him back at 2:30pm in the afternoon. He then hung up.
We then called
ZHOU, telling him
SUN did not want to see us. He insisted the matter has been appropriately dealt with and did not give us any of the conclusions.
ZHOU said he would call
SUN and ask about it.
ZHOU then also hung up. After a while, we called
ZHOU back. No answer. [We] wanted to find
SUN. But he had finished work.
Wednesday 07/05/2008
We went to the Letter Report and Visit Bureau of Zhengzhou for Section Chief SUN. When we arrived, we went to SUN’s office to the left of the lobby. The staff member there said they didn’t have Section Chief SUN there. When we showed the staff SUN’s telephone number, we were told that that was not a telephone number in that office. We then call SUN’s office. A female surnamed
ZHANG (Public servant of Mr. SUN's department) answered the call.
YANG said: “Greeting to you. I am from Xinmi. Is Section Chief SUN in?”
[Translator note: Chinese reads “matter” and it is probably typo for “all level”].
ZHANG said: “Are you
Liping YANG? Section Chief SUN is not in. He is away on business.Just left.”
YANG said: “When will he return?”
ZHANG said: “Don’t know” and hung up.
We then called Section Chief ZHOU. No answer. We decided to go to Section Chief ZHOU in the provincial bureau. Around 12:10, we saw ZHOU coming out from the office building. We went up to ZHOU.
ZHOU said: “You are stalking me again!”
YANG said: “We have no choice. When we called you yesterday, you asked us towait. We waited till 11:30 without any call back from you. I called your office and nobody answered the phone. Section Chief SUN said he was busy in the afternoon and we were to call him after 2:30pm if needed. We did and he didn’t answer. The person who answered the phone said he had left for a meeting.
ZHOU said: “After you called me, I called him and told him he must have a talk with you. He said fine.”
YANG said: “You said he is in the big office on the ground floor, right?”
ZHOU said: “He was there.”
YANG: “He was no longer on the ground floor. I don’t know which office/department he is in.”
ZHOU asked: “Do you know which department I am in?”
YANG replied: “Express Investigation Department”.
ZHOU said: “He is also in Express Investigation Department. You know what department I am in but you don’t know what department he is in.”
YANG: “I don’t know him. Yesterday afternoon, I telephoned him and the people there said he was in a meeting. Call back tomorrow! We called after 09:00am the next day, he didn’t even pick up his phone, telling a female to answer the call. As soon as I mentioned Xinmi, she asked if I were Liping YANG. How strange. Never met [her] and how did she knows my name.”
ZHOU said: “He has still not seen you?”
YANG: “The person who answered the call said Section Chief SUN was on a business trip, just left, a last minute trip.”
ZHOU asked: “What do you want to do?”
YANG: “I hope you can tell us directly the outcome. We will then leave.”
ZHOU: “Hasn’t Section Chief MENG [Deputy Director of department of Henan provincial Report & Visit Bureau] told you already?”
YANG: “No. MENG sent us to SUN. SUN was on the phone with us for more than 10 minutes. His exact words were that the governments at three levels had already resolved the problem. The matter had been appropriately dealt with. I asked what actually was the outcome?
ZHOU: “Section Chief MENG said he had already told you, although some points have not been explained so plainly.”
YANG: “[You] can tell us whatever directly. I don’t want to trouble the leaders.”
ZHOU said: “I heard ”. [Translator note: I interpret it as a typo for “she” from the context. Chinese reads “I said the outcome is …”. I interpret it as a missing character meaning “what”]. from MENG that Xinmi city government has already announced a decision. A government department, a Vice Section Chief-General of the City Letter Report and Visit Bureau, and two Section Chiefs at the province level have all been assigned to deal with this matter.”
YANG: “Yes, Section Chief-General
Sichang WEI [Deputy chief of Henan Provincial Report & Visit Bureau] has been there. But what was the outcome when they returned? We have no idea. As I told you yesterday, the National Resources Company of Xinmi city came to us with a three point proposal. At the time, you said this was different from the report submitted by the city bureau.”
ZHOU: “What decision did MENG give to the questions you raised? Has he not told you?”
YANG: “Yes, she said the mines have a safety production license but are without land licenses which are in the process of being obtained.” I then asked: “If they have the license, could you tell us the license number? She said: “Go and speak to SUN at the City Bureau. During our last meeting, [we] spoke to her about
Gairong ZHAI. She had doubts at the time. But when she was asked again this time, she did not give a direct answer and asked us to ask the City Bureau. Yesterday we asked SUN. He said Xinmi city authority had already appropriately dealt with this. He was threatened us by saying it is our problem and told us to think things over. Take our time and think things over at home.
If there was any impact, the government would
take the responsibility.
ZHOU said: “I’d contact him again this afternoon. What are you going to do?”
YANG: “Don’t we have the signature(s)?”
ZHOU: “The signature(s) are with her.”
YANG: “Don’t you have access to it?”
ZHOU: “Do you think I won’t get into any trouble?”
YANG: “If this problem is resolved, we won’t need to bother you any further.”
ZHOU: “Let me think about it. You are here anyway.” Then he left.
May 8th (Thursday)
We went to the Letter Report and Visit Bureau of Zhengzhou for Director SUN.When we saw him,
he didn’t invite us into his office and took us to a place outside the office (the back door for the Zhengzhou city Communist Party committee).
He was eating sunflower seeds while he was talking to us in a sarcastic manner:
SUN said: “Welcome to your visit again. What you are reporting has been appropriately resolved. I only want to say three things:
1. Xinmi and Zhengzhou city authorities have appropriately resolved your problem;
2. The documents of the coal mines are complete and legal; (See Reported Mr.LI Xinde published article, He investigated to confirm the coal mines have no 2 licences of Land and coal mine work safety)
3. If you are not satisfied, then you are the problem.”
YANG said: “If you still insist that the problem has been appropriately resolved, what is the conclusion?”
SUN: “It is concluded. Let me know if there is any point you don’t understand.”
YANG: “I don’t know what the conclusion is from Xinmi city.”
SUN: “You know full well. [We] have already visited you, haven’t you signed? What conclusion do you still want?”
YANG: “I want the conclusion from Xinmi city.”
SUN: “The conclusion has been given to you. What do you still not understand? Firstly, you claimed that the
coal mine(s) is/are making an impact on you but it turns out that there is no impact on you. You claimed the documents of the coal mines are not in order but it turns out they are in order. The city government has already established these things. You don’t need to worry about it.”
YANG: “What about the land license?”
SUN: “No land license is needed for coal mine extraction. You check the law, check the books.”
YANG: “Yes, Land license is not included in the 6 permissions needed, but this is not
what the Land Resources Law says.”
SUN: “We follow the regulations on coal mine extraction issued by the State Council.”
YANG: “Without a land license, he can use something else instead?”
SUN: “The State Council stipulates that if all 6 permissions are in place, extraction can take place. If you don’t agree, you can speak to the State Council.”
YANG: “Then the land resource law is useless.”
SUN: “We also have our legal grounds. It’s not that we don’t have any legal basis.” (
Editor Comment: The government breached the the power;)
YANG: “We know the land license is not included in the 6 permissions. We are clear on this and you don’t need to explain.”
SUN: “Therefore, they don’t have all the 6 permissions for the extraction.”
YANG: “They can, but
they don’t even have the land license”.
SUN: “The State has regulations on coal mine extraction. I can only give you 10 minutes. If you are not done in 10 minutes, you can return this afternoon. I can only give you 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes in the afternoon. I can’t ignore my work because of you.”
YANG: “Yes. We don’t want to interfere with your work. You can’t keep insisting the problem has been appropriately resolved. Just saying it has been appropriately resolved is not enough.”
SUN: “If you say it is not good enough then it is not good enough? Do we listen to you or the city government?”
YANG: “Here, we listen to you. We can’t get to the city government. We listen to you.”
SUN: “I don’t want to talk too much to you. Look at you, you are not that old, I really don’t understand,
Jiancai ZHAO the governor has already signed the paper, black and white, and this is now known to the
State Alliance Office (National Level office, it is based on Ministry of Land Resource Administration of China),
Provincial Letter Report and Visit Bureau, Provincial Government and the Party General Secretary. Just the three of you keep visiting and you think you can reverse his decision?
Go home and lie down, think about it.”
YANG: “There is nothing I can’t understand.”
SUN: “I can disclose this to you, I can clearly tell you that we are drafting, drafting a report to the city government.
What the three of you are doing is doing no good for your future. Don’t ruin your lives because of this. If you don’t have anything else, gohome and read books to improve yourselves.”
YANG: “Thank you for your advice.”
SUN: “
We are drafting this immediately. When it is completed, it needs approval from the city leader(s) before being sent to the city public security bureau. This will definitely be sent to the public security. If I lie about this, I am not a human being. [If] the three of you keep visiting the provincial, the city authorities, if you are not worse off [for doing so], I won't have this job any more. I can bet you my job. Look, this vehicle (pointing at a black car),
it is black and you want to say it is white. You need to have your principles. What is the point if you lose your conscience?”
YANG: “We also hope the leaders have your principles.”
SUN: “I respect you, manager YANG. I will give you another 3 minutes before I return. If you don’t leave, I will
have to get security to kick you out.”
YANG: Now the government has this information transparency system. If I petition
for an issue, shouldn’t I be informed of the outcome?”
SUN: “
You know full well in your heart. Don’t be a hard nut here. It is meaningless. The problem you petition for, from now on, does not make any sense, it is meaning less. What you petitioned before had some sense. But from now on, it makes no sense any more. Things are being confused. The five points you requested all have been concluded. But you refuse to accept any of them. Now [you] have nothing else to say and are not making sense.”
YANG: “You know the conclusion. Tell us the conclusion then”.
SUN: “Already given to you. I can’t give you any other conclusion.”
YANG: “When was it given to me?”
SUN: “When response was made to your visits, all clear. On that day, you called and reported that the coal mines didn’t have a land license.
I can now clearly tell you the mines don’t need any land license. The state clearly stipulates that with the 6 permissions, mines can be operated. What else do you want? What results? Right.OK?”
YANG: Could you give us the reference number for the safety production permit?”
SUN: “No need for me to give you. You can check it up on the Internet.”
YANG: “The thing is [we] can’t find it.”
SUN: “Can’t find it? Go look yourselves. OK? I advise you to stop your visits. Any more visits will ruin you. OK, I will stop here. I have answered all I should have answered you.”
YANG: “What have you answered?”
SUN: “What you are petitioning has been concluded by investigation. If you want to talk with me further, return in the afternoon. When you are back in the afternoon, I can give you another 5 minutes.”
YANG: “What are you saying? You are just trying to manipulate us.”
SUN: “Your petition is manipulating. Don’t you know the problem is appropriately resolved/dealt with?” ( He left after this.)
During this meeting, SUN’s attitude was very unfriendly. Every time before we finished, he interrupted.
Lina ZHAO (A team member of MFP's petition team)
郑州密丰纸业公司信访记录
2008 年5 月6 日星期二
我们到郑州市信访局找孙处长(孙学良,郑州市信访局催查处处长)，到郑州市局后，我们便给孙处长打电话。接通电话后说：昨天我们见过周处长了，周处长说给你打过电话了，有啥事情可以来你这咨询。
孙说：说啥呀！因为你们得相信政府，你们市政府，郑州市政府都介入这个事了，都已经说得很清楚了，如果说是这个政府做的不到位，包括新密、郑州市，这我们都不会同意，你想想，你一个人说这个事，我们这个郑州市派工作组，郑州市国土局派工作组，郑州市信访局派工作组，对你们这个事反复调查，反复调查论证。可以说是帮过来帮过去，你说对这个事重视不重视。你们说这领导查的结果，如果是没有法律依据。那我感觉你们想想这是不是个人有什么....。
杨(郑州密丰纸业公司副总杨丽萍)说：不是俺不是，您看，关键是现在怎么处理，结果我们都不知道，
孙说：这个我们都下去见过了，这个事都很清楚。有些问题都心照不宣。但有些啥事情，你们作为年轻人，我感觉是不是不要太过了。我是实事求是说的，有问题说问题，这事不要太过了。过头了，将来对谁都不好。这红头文件都出来了，因为这个事，郑州市政府，都有报告，包括你们说的问题，这个一定要相信政府。杨说：相信政府，关键是我们现在都不知道到底怎么处理。您结论是啥，我们都不知道。对吧？
孙说：你们反映的问题，各级政府已经处理到位。
杨说：我们是知情人。
孙打断说：我觉得是你们个人认识问题，不要太过了。
杨说：啥个人认识问题，啥太过了，我们只是问问，就是说你们处理了，我们得知道处理结论吧。
孙说：已经告知你了，新密市政府也告知你了，也征求你的意见了，也开听证会了，郑州市政府，市长对这个问题也签发过。我们郑州市信访局查过，郑州市国土局也查过，包括你们新密市政府查过。有关专家论证过。你们这个问题已经处理到位了。
杨说：处理到位，结论是啥？我们不是说没有处理，我们也非常感谢政府做的工作。
孙说：已经处理到位。各级政府已经处理到位，你回家再想想，反思反思。是不是自己认识上有问题，而不是政府问题。
杨说：我们最起码也知道反映的问题怎么处理了吧？孙说：新密市政府不是已经听证会了吗？不是已经告知你了吗？说得多清楚啊！有些问题不要太过头了，你们反映问题如果太过头了，对你们一点好处都没有。杨说：不是，我们啥太过头了，孙处长。
孙说：你是中国公民，我们也是中国公民，你们反映的问题，乡、县、市、省都有一定的结论。还想到这反映，到那反映。还不反思，这个问题我们会有建议的，马上这个问题，我们要给市政府反映，要写报告，说这个事情。这不是光你个人的问题，而是整个郑州市、河南省的问题，知道不知道？你们反映的问题，经过三级论证，实事求是调查，我们也把关了，你们新密市委书记，
包括郑州市市长对这个问题都很关注，而且签发的都有文。我们也给省政，包括省委书记都报过。包括北京。如果你太过了....。
杨说：你对我有偏见。
孙说：没有偏见，是你自己认识的问题。
杨说：我到这儿来，是周处长让来找你的。
孙说：我知道。
杨说：我们来反映的问题，你知道结论，我们不知道。政府不都是。
孙打断说：这都回访了，也告知了。
杨说：昨天我们见周处长(河南省信访局催查处处长)说：我们那的国资公司是找过俺，但是新密市报上来的结果，怎么写，这都有备案。你可以看，他说不一样。
孙说：当时在魏局长办公室(郑州市信访局副局长)。那材料拿上去了，你反映的的问题已经查清。你认为没有查到位，是你个人认识问题。
杨说：我们没有说处理不到位，只是问问，你们认为处理到位了，处理结论是啥。
孙说：你们反映的问题有结论。一、对你们没有影响，煤矿方面，其他的跟你没有啥关系。而且郑州市都有结论。将来出了啥问题。在生产上，由政府部门负责，这个你放心。但是你个认识是个人认识。就是说将来你这就是不冷静、不理智的行为，你将来也要负责。你们反映的问题，我们实事求是的，以政府的名义向省政府做了汇报。你所反映问题已经处理到位，你找我当面说也好，电话说也好。这就是我的原则。孙处长老在一个问题上纠缠，也不告知结果。老是说已经处理到位。之后，
杨说：我们反映的安全生产许可证。
孙说：不是你们管的。
孙说：谁的事谁管，不需要你们知道。管好自己的事就行了，你说的问题，煤炭局，国土局都可以查，而且查的很清楚。我都见了，这你放心。有担待。
杨说：那这各种证件是不是应该公开。
孙说：公开不公开，给你没啥关系。你不是煤矿，你是密丰纸业的，你反映的是人家影响你。结果人家不影响你，对不对。你现在找这，找那。找一千个理由。
杨说：我们找的都是正当理由。
孙说：你们要反思自己的行为。你这个事，我们要给政府打报告，针对你这个事。马上要开奥运会了，我们要对周边不稳定因素，我们要给政府建议。你对问题不清楚了，我可以正面回答。这个没问题。
杨说：我问的任何一个问题，你都没有正面回答。
孙老是说：市级政府已经处理到位。你所问的问题，我都正面回答了，你所反映的，这个煤矿证件齐全。
杨问：那有没有土地使用证？
孙说：土地使用证，啥都齐全，齐全不齐全，跟你没啥关系。
杨说：那要法律干啥？
孙说：你回去反思吧！如果还有不清楚。你还可以打电话，还可以咨询。还可以问。
杨说：问你啥，周处长让来找你，面也不见。所有问题都不正面回答。
孙说：魏局长给你回答过了，我也回答过了，
杨说：啥回答过了，翟改荣的事，一个人找不到，其他人(300多人签状纸)都找不到？
孙说：我跟你说，我还有很多事情要做，我不可能针对你这个问题再翻一次了，已经处理到位了。你要的结论，该给你的都给你了。老说已经处理到位，让回去反思，说领导找他。让下午2：30 再给他打电话。说完就挂了。紧接着，我们便给周处长打电话说孙处长不见我们。老说已经处理到位，也不给我们结论。
周处长说：他给孙处长打电话问一下。也把电话挂了。过了一会儿，我们又给周处长打电话，没人接。又给找找看能不能找到孙处长，结果人家下班了。
2008 年5 月7 日星期三
我们到郑州市信访局找孙处长。到市局后，先到接待大厅左边的办公室找孙处长，里边工作人员说这里没有孙处长，把孙处长电话给她看后，他回答说：不是这里的电话。随后我们打孙处长办公室电话。接电话是一位姓张的女性。
杨说：你好，我是新密的。孙处长在不在？
张说：你是杨丽萍吧？孙处长不在，他出差了。刚走。
杨说：那他什么时候能回来啊？
张说：不清楚，挂断电话后。紧接着我们给周处长打电话，没人接听。我们决定到省局找周处长。约12：10 分见周处长从办公楼出来。我们走上前。
周说：你们又在这截我呀！
杨说：我们也没办法。昨天给你打电话，你说让等会儿，等到11：30 分你也没给我回电话。我给你办公室打电话，也没人接。孙处说下午有事的话让2：30 后给他打电话。我们给他打电话，他没接，接电话的人说他开会去了。
周说：你给我打电话后，我给他打电话说：你一定要给她们好好谈，他说中。
杨说：你说他在一楼办事大厅，是吧？
周说：原来是在那的。
杨说：他不在一楼，他是啥处我们也不知道。周说：那我们是啥处。
杨说：催查处。周说：他也是催查处，知道我是啥处，不知道他是啥处。
杨说：关键是俺不认识他，昨天下午又给他打电话，里边的人说下午开会。明天再说吧！我们今天9：00多又给他打电话，他连电话都不接，还让一个女的接。一说新密，她他还是没接待你们？
杨说：接电话的说孙处长出差了，刚走。临时的。
周说：那你说咋办。
杨说：我想你直接给我们说说结果，我们可走了。
周说：孟处长(河南省信访局催查处副处长)不是给你说过了吗？
杨说：没有说，孟处长说的就是让我们去找孙处长，孙处长在电话里说了十几分钟。原话就是三级政府已经解决了，到位了。俺说结论到底是呢！
周说：孟处长说已经给你们说了，有些没说那么直。
杨说：有啥可直接说了，俺也不想麻烦领导。
周说：我听孟处长说：新密市政府已经报过结果。还有一个部门，市信访局也派了一个副局长，省局也派了两个处长去督办过。
杨说：是，魏诗昌局长去过那，关键是回来以后处理的是啥结果，我们不知道。我昨天不是给你说过，新密市国资公司找过我们处理意见是有三点，当时你说这和市局报上结果不一样。
周说：孟处长对你们提出的问题是个啥结论，没给你们说过。
杨说：说过，她说煤矿有安全生产许可证，没有土地使用证，正在办。俺说：既然有证，那告诉我们证号，她说：你去找市局的孙处长，还有上次见面的时候给她说翟改荣事，当时她也有疑虑，可这次又问她，她就没正面回答，还是让我们去问市局。昨天又问孙处长，他说新密市已经处理到位了。他还吓唬我们说是我们思想问题，让我们想清楚。回去好好想想。如果今后
对你们造成啥影响，政府会承担责任的
(请点击链接 查看实情 http://www.315cx.com.cn/html/200901/98266.html。
http://q.sohu.com/forum/7/topic/5741158
(高层
京官赵铁锤等亲自坐阵, 政府大员统筹设计, 策反收买股东,煤矿雇佣黑帮联合警察, 武装攻占郑州密丰纸业公司, 打伤保安6人, 直接损失6,000,000万元. 强攻失败后, 厂房裂缝. 为了掩盖丑闻, 直接使用警察, 逮捕受害者. 占领工厂, 煤矿霸占郑州密丰纸业公司---腐败
'裆'脱光---要不我爸怎敢叫李刚!这是河南煤矿事故不断真正原因)
周说：我下午再给他联系。那你咋办呢？
杨说：俺想新密市政府要是有结论，你直接告诉我们，我们可不再来麻烦你了。俺也不想麻烦领导。
周说：这事是孟处长直接联系的。
杨说：不是有签字吗？
周说：签字也在她那儿。
杨说：你不是可以调出来看看吗？
周说：那你说我没点事。
杨说：你看俺这个事儿解决了，不是就不再麻烦你了。
周说：我考虑考虑吧。现在你也不走。说完便走了。
5 月8 日（周四）工作情况汇报
今天去市信访局找孙处长，见到孙处长后他没让在办公室谈,把我们带到办公室外边(市委后门)，很不耐烦的样子还磕着瓜子，带着讽刺的口气说：
孙说：“欢迎你们三个继续跑哦，你们所说的已经处理到位，我只说三句话，第一：你们所反应的问题新密市政府郑州市已经处理到位，第二：煤矿手续齐全是合法的，第三：你们认为不到位是你们认识问题”
杨说：你要还是这个态度说已经处理到位，那结论到底是啥？
孙说：有结论，你说吧对那一点不清楚你可以给我说
杨说：新密市报上来的结果俺都不清楚
孙说：你很清楚，已经回访你了你不签字，你还要啥结果？
杨说；俺要新密市往郑州报的结果
孙说：报的结果已经回访你了，你还有啥不清楚的，第一你说的煤矿对你们有影响煤矿对你们没影响，你所说的手续不齐全煤矿已经到位了，这些都经过市政府认证了，不用你们操心.
杨说：那土地使用证呢？
孙说：煤矿开采不需要土地使用证，你回去再看看法律、再看看书
杨说：是，六证中没有土地使用证，但是土地法不是这样的
孙说：我们以国务院颁发的煤矿开采这一块儿为准
杨说：没有土地使用证允许他补办？
孙说：国务院明确规定六证齐全就可以开采，这个如有你有意见可以找国务院说
杨说：那土地法不是白下发了
孙说：我们依据的也是法啊，我们不是没有依据法
杨说：我们知道六证中没有土地使用证，这点我们清楚不用你说
孙说：所以说人家六证齐全就可以开嘛
杨说：可以开，那首先土地使用证就没有
孙说：煤矿开采国家有规定，我只给你十分钟时间，十分钟说完还想说你下午再来，我一天只给你上午十分钟下午十分钟，不能因为你影响我的工作
杨说：是，我们不影响你的工作，你不能老说处理到位，光说处理到位是不行的
孙说：你说不行就不行了，听你的还是听市政府的/
杨说：到这儿听你的呗，市政府俺听不了听你的呗
孙说：我不想和你们说过多的话，你像你们年龄也不大我就像不明白了，市长赵建材同意并签字白纸黑字，到了国家联席办，省信访局、省政府省委书记都知道，就凭你们三个跑跑就能把他推翻，没事回去躺那儿好好想想
杨说：俺没有啥想不明白的
孙说：我可以给你透个信儿，我可以明说就这个事我们正在起草东西，打报告给市政府，你们三个人的行为对你们将来一点好处都没有，别因为这儿把你们自己毁了，没事回去看看书提高自身素质吧
杨说：谢谢你对我们的奉劝
孙说：我们马上就写这个东西，写好后必须经市领导批示然后转到市公安局，这个事儿百分之百转到公安局骗你不是人，你们三个今后还是往省里、市里跑要是不受到处理我工作可以不干了，我可以打个赌. 啊，
这个车（指着一辆黑色轿车）明明是黑的你非要说成是白的，做人要有原则，如果把良心都掏出来了活着还有啥意思
杨说：我们也希望领导都有原则
孙说：我尊重你杨经理，再给你三分钟，说完我回屋，再不走让保安把你们拉走
杨说：现在不是有政府信息公开制度，俺是申请人可以知道结果吧。
孙说：你心理很清楚，别在这儿钻牛角尖一点意思都没有，你所反应的事情从现在开始一点道理都没有一点意思都没有，你以前反应的问题还有道理，从现在开始没一点道理，已经把黑的说成白的了，你以前反应的五条都有结论你一一否定了，现在没啥说了就非的说黑的是白的
杨说：你看有结论了你把结果给我们呗.
孙说：已经给你们了，我不可能再给你结论
杨说：啥时候给俺的？
孙说：回访时给你说的一清二楚，你那天打电话不是说煤矿没有土地 使用证，我现在可以明确告诉你煤矿不需要土地证，国家明文规定有 六证就可以开，别的还说啥要啥结果？对不对有意思没有
杨说：那安全生产许可证的证号可以给我们说说吧
孙说：我不用给你说，你可以去网上查网上都有公开
杨说：关键是查不到
孙说：查不到自己查，好不好，我奉劝你们别在跑了再跑就把你们毁 了，好了今天就说到这儿该回答的都回答了
杨说：你回答的是啥么？
孙说：你所反应的问题都已经查清楚了，还想给我说下午来，下午来我再给你五分钟
杨说：你说的是啥，完全是应付
孙说：你反应的问题就是应付，已经处理到位你知道不知道。（说完就走了不在听我们说话）
这次谈话孙处长的态度很不友好，每次我们还没把话说完就 被他打断了
赵丽娜(郑州密丰纸业公司住在危房上访员工)
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